Anxiety

In this episode, David talks to Sophie Shaw, a hypnotherapist, Reiki Master teacher, and Author of "The Hare and the Moon" - (A calming, magical bedtime story for children, which gently introduces the practice of mindfulness). This episode
focuses on overcoming anxiety through mindfulness. Sophie discusses what
anxiety is, how we can recognise it, and how we can fit mindfulness practice
into our busy lives. 

Links -

Visit Sophie's website at: www.sophieshaw.co.uk
Sophie's Facebook / Instagram / Twitter: @sophieshawheals 

Sophie's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVASietfN30ry0JaFL58I3A

Get a free preview of the first chapter of
Sophie's book "The Hare and the Moon" here: www.sophieshaw.co.uk/books

Headspace (For guided meditation):   https://www.headspace.com

Get access to all of The Quiet Mind

podcast episodes by subscribing to our podcast at: https://thequietmind.buzzsprout.com/

Visit our social media –
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Transcript

David 0:00 

Hi, and welcome to another episode of the quiet mind. I'm David Walker. And today I'm being joined by the wonderful Sophie Shaw, who is a hypnotherapist author and Reiki Master Teacher. So we'll find out all about that. Let's get going

David 0:25 

Welcome back. Thanks for joining us again, and welcome Sophie to the show. It's an absolute pleasure to have you on the show.

Sophie Shaw 0:32 

lovely to be here. 

David 0:35 

So, one of the reasons I've got you on the show, apart from the fact that you have a new book coming out, which we'll speak about a bit later on. And also apart from the fact that your voice sounds like the rabbit from the Cadbury's caramel advert from years ago. I don't know if you remember? Probably showing my age here! But, but yeah, one of the things that I wanted to speak to you about, in particular, is mental health, mental well-being, mindfulness, and all this kind of thing, in particular, how to deal with anxieties. The channel is all about reaching out to people to try and give them tips and coping strategies, you know, for how to cope with anxieties of all different kinds. I have a day job outside of this podcast, Where I speak to clients about various traumas that they've been through. And I try to offer support to them, and I'm pretty sure through your business you must hear a lot of clients with similar kinds of anxieties that they're looking for help with. 

Sophie Shaw

Yeah, absolutely. And particularly at the moment, you know, the lockdown has been incredibly tough for people's mental health. And weirdly, I found that when people are coming out of lockdown, when we're supposed to be going back to something approaching, normal life, in actual fact, people are feeling more anxiety. And it's all the uncertainty of what we're dealing with at the moment. You know, I think in a crisis, most people cope pretty well, generally speaking, but when we go into a sort of an extended crisis, and we're six months in, and you get all of this adrenal fatigue, and there's no definite end in sight, it's not like we're going to open a door to another day and just go boom, it's all done. Because the endlessness of it causes its own kind of fatigue. So you get anxiety coupled with depression and, you know, people sinking into kind of hopelessness. 

David 2:57 

It's awful. And I'm actually am ashamed to say that I didn't see this coming. I know that when we first went into lockdown, I remember the media was reporting that it could potentially cause a mental health crisis. And at the time, I thought, really? I couldn't see it happening. And then slowly, but surely, the signs all started to make themselves known. And I could feel it myself, I could feel the anxieties rising with the isolation, and also, clients were coming to me, with far more intense anxieties. And there are so many other factors at play because we had clients who would normally be getting counseling or some other kind of therapeutic services, and they were suddenly no longer getting access or full access to those services. And so their anxieties were much higher. So I suppose it's more important than ever, that we're having this conversation. 

Sophie Shaw 4:10 

One of the gifts of lockdown is that we had all of this incredible technology, which was not being exploited for its full potential. So many people like you and me have had to suddenly pivot and move our business online. And it is not a substitute for human contact and for hugging and touching, but it is an enormous help to be able to have this kind of facility for talking with people. And I've I have been surprised actually to discover how effective it's been working with people online. I feared that it would feel disconnected or impersonal or with hypnotherapy in particular that it just wouldn't work online. But to be honest with you, I'm not seeing a whole lot of difference, in fact, the wonderful thing is that I'm seeing people who are more comfortable at home, particularly if they have anxiety and particularly during a pandemic because they don't have to go out. Yeah. I see some of my clients when they're in their jammies in bed. It's great because they can just relax.

David 5:26 

Yeah, I can, I can totally get that. I was exactly the same, you know, when we went into the first lockdown, I actually developed almost a kind of Agoraphobia. I didn't want to go out, because I didn't feel safe. I think other people may have shared experiences like this.

Sophie Shaw 5:48 

Without question, and I think that's partly what contributes to this rise in anxiety, as we come out of lockdown and go into normal life, I have people, you know, really lovely, sociable people normally who are extroverted, and they get their energy from socializing with their friends. But suddenly, now their friends are saying to them, come on, we're all meeting out, and they're feeling nauseous, feeling panicked. They don't exactly know why. Because they love being out and talking with their friends, but their entire body is just saying no.

David 6:36 

Yeah, and you know, everybody recovers from things at their own pace, and in their own way. And this is, I suppose, is no different, everyone is going to react to this new normal and come out of the sort of social isolation and back to normality, whatever that will be, at different times and in different ways, you know, but yeah, that that's that kind of, it's a new form of pressure, almost a new anxiety that's developed, you know, we'll get a peer group, we feel the need to go out because everyone else is doing it, you know, even though we're not, we're not safe. Actually, my wife's friends had arranged to go to a pub. And I remember my wife was thinking, you know, it'd be nice to see my friends, it'd be lovely to catch up, you know, but there's a certain anxiety about going to the pubs because it's the unexpected, you know, are they're going to be hundreds of people who are drunk and not socially isolating? And what's that going to mean for me? So, yeah, I can totally understand.

Sophie Shaw 7:44 

And it's very complex, you know, because you've got extroverted people, and I'm talking not about the extraversion that we think of being extraversion, which is like being a big show off. But extraversion in terms of where you get your energy from, where you feel the most comfortable and extroverts feel the most comfortable in the company of other people, and introverts replenish their energy by being alone. And it's tough for both those groups of people in complex ways, because extroverts may want to be connecting with their friends, but they may have anxiety about doing that. And introverts may need to be alone, but they might be stuck in the house with other people all the time and never on their own. So it's tough all around.

David 8:35 

That's the other thing, actually, that I hadn't really considered, introverts actually being stuck with other people at home. But certainly in my job. We work very closely with the police and the criminal justice system to support victims of domestic abuse. And so we have seen, unfortunately, a phenomenal rise in domestic abuse cases since walk down. And again, that is that just that added risk, you know, not just because you're physically being held captive, but you also don't have the escape options that may have been available to you outside, which obviously has increased risk factors as well.

Sophie Shaw 9:26 

Without question, it's a pressure keg, there's no relief, there's no ability for people to expend their energy in normal ways. Because it does require energy to be with other people. So yeah it's a very complex time emotionally and mentally. 

David 9:45 

So. When people come to you, Sophie, to your business, what kinds of anxieties or concerns are they experiencing that they're looking for support with?

Sophie Shaw 10:05 

What I often find is that most of the people who come to me, and it tends to be mostly women that come to me having had some difficulty with anxiety in their past, and often that's around those very emotionally intense teen years. And, you know, I think we can dismiss teenage angst. But in actual fact, it's an incredibly turbulent time and an enormous moment of huge brain development and hormonal shifts, particularly for women. And I know it happens for men as well. But they've had some difficulty with anxiety in those moments, it's usually because they've had some difficult experience like bullying or some other trauma or something like that. And they may have put it to bed for several years. But then it kind of comes back, and it comes back at a time when they weren't expecting it. I see a lot of women who are caring for somebody else. So they might be caring for neurodiverse children, for example, or they might be caring for an elderly parent, or they're the ones doing it all and putting themselves at the bottom of the list of priorities. And then there just comes a point where they can't do it anymore, the well is empty. And they may have come through some difficult experiences, like losing a parent or suffering some other kind of loss like being made redundant. And at the time they managed, but then maybe one or two years later, suddenly, it just hits them and you get carer burnout, you get grief, you get all of this old stuff coming up wanting to be dealt with, and there just comes a point where you can't ignore it anymore. And you need somebody to help you process it. And so that's where we start the journey.

David 12:14 

Yeah, and that aspect of your body almost telling you when it's time to deal with it, is very interesting. Whether you choose to ignore the signs or whether you just don't recognize the signs when they're happening. Ultimately, it comes to a point when the body will just say, hang on, enough is enough, you know, and everybody will have that point at different times, and in different ways. And for me, I could feel the blood pumping in my veins, I could feel the gnawing feeling in my stomach. I could feel this kind of crawling feeling of my blood pressure rising. It was absolutely horrible. So it's a really debilitating thing to experience and when we talk about anxiety, people always tend to think in terms of the mental side of it. But actually, there's whole physiology of stuff happening inside as well. 

Sophie Shaw 13:41 

I have also had my own go around with anxiety, depression, I had terrible postnatal depression for years, in fact, and this is before I became a therapist, and in actual fact, even when I became a therapist, it still took me years to kind of look back and process all of that. And I developed rashes all over my legs, all over my hands and my arms. I don't have eczema, but the skin is literally crying out and saying Will you please deal with this? And there is a whole range of other physical symptoms, I see people who have genuine physical ailments, or diabetes or arthritis, joint pain, back pain is a really big one because that's so Linked in with your emotional life. And the amazing thing is that once you start to get work, on freeing up the anxiety and soothing it and letting go of some of that depression, then you find that there's an enormous improvement in physical health as well. A client I worked with recently has a range of complex medical issues. And she was sat there feeling a new sort of chesty kind of pain. And just to be very, very clear, this wasn't the kind of chest pain where you know, you need to immediately contact the GP, But as soon as we finished our session, the chest pains were gone. So the weight of that emotion just sitting on her chest was causing her real physical discomfort. And when you can lift that emotional weight, then you lift that discomfort. It's brilliant.

David 15:43 

It's incredible how it's all linked. in terms of the physical side, the mental side, it very often cannot be separated, because stress is a major cause of inflammation in the body. And it raises the cortisol levels in the body, we've spoken about that before on the podcast. So yeah, there's all sorts of these really quite important and significant physical changes happening as well. It's just awful. Yeah. When your clients do come to you, Sophie, what kind of therapies Do you offer? What kind of supports Can you provide to them?

Sophie Shaw 16:41 

Well I trained originally, about 11 years ago, I trained as a Reiki Master Teacher. And so for several years, that was my predominant therapy. And I absolutely love Reiki I used to work in a hospice as well for three years working with people with neurological disorders and working with people who had a terminal diagnosis of cancer or COPD, or other ailments. I also worked with carers. And I discovered how Reiki can just cut through all of that stuff. It was so intensely soothing, for all of the physical symptoms that you have with chemotherapy and pain. But it also was intensely soothing for all of the anxiety and the mental torture of being a carer and having a terminal diagnosis or living with a lifelong, debilitating condition. And then, some years ago, I trained as a hypnotherapist, and I discovered to my joy and surprise that they're not very different. Hypnotherapy does focus more on the language and the way we talk to one another, the way I talk to my clients is much more geared towards helping them specifically with the way that they think about things. And so what I love to do is blend the two of those together. So I talk to people in a hypnotherapeutic way, and I use Reiki healing energy to boost that healing and that sense of peace and calm and well being. And together, I found that they're a really powerful combination for transforming the way people think and feel.

David 18:43 

Do you still do the "Mindful Monday's" guided meditations?

Sophie Shaw 18:59 

I don't do the mindful Mondays anymore. What I transformed that into was a paid course. So I do a limited run because I found that if you do something every Monday, people kind of lose their connection with it. people like to have a start and an end. So I now do a wonderful hour-long online meditation retreat called "reboot your spirit" maybe three or four times a year and it's six, one hour sessions of discussion and meditation within a small private Facebook group and that is gorgeous.

David 19:49 

I used to listen to your mindful Mondays when they first came out. And one of the things that struck me was your voice and your manner when you are sort of guiding people through the meditation process. That's when I realised you sounded like the Cadbury's Caramel bunny from the adverts. Because you just have a really nice, natural, gentle sort of way about you, and I'm sure that that translates really well when you're doing hypnotherapy, and you're doing this sort of mindfulness practice with folk as well. Can I ask, you obviously have your own journey, you've come to this, sort of way of working for a reason, How did you sort of get there? Was this something that you have always been interested in? Or was it something that developed later in life that you became drawn to?

Sophie Shaw 20:50 

I've always had an interest in alternative healing and alternative therapies. And I was lucky, I was raised in a family that was extremely broad-minded and open-minded about alternative healing and spirituality. And that's not to say that we didn't also use you know, paracetamol, and what have you. In fact, I think that's the grounding for the way I work, which is part practical and part ethereal, and so I sort of innately knew that there was something that could be done to help, that was intangible. And as you know, I was an actor for 15 years. So that was my main passion. I wanted to be an actor and a singer. And I did both of those things for several years. And then I had my son, and Anyone who's been an actor knows that having children is the end of your career as an actor! 

So I then started to explore this thing that I had always been interested in, and the word Reiki just kind of pinged into my head, I'd heard of Reiki, but I had no idea what it was. I just knew it was an alternative therapy. And as soon as I started researching it, I just thought, Well, yes, I feel that, I absolutely get that sort of feeling, it's an instinctive way of healing people just by using your intention, just by using your energy.

And so it led me gradually over the years to the most connected and fulfilling period of my life in terms of doing what I felt I was supposed to do. So yeah, initially it was a way of also of working flexibly around having a toddler who, never ever, ever slept. Ever. 

But it was also something that was enormously healing for me because I had postnatal depression. And that's partly because my marriage was kind of crumbling at that point. And it was a very painful time, and Reiki was kind of an anchor for me, it was the thing that kept me tethered to the earth, the thing that kept me tethered to my spiritual nature, which is where all the healing really came from. And once I discovered that I was able to help other people who were feeling the same things that I had felt, I knew how to help them, because I knew what I needed. It became a sort of a mutual healing journey.

David 24:06 

I think that's really important when you look around at anyone who is in the kind of business of providing therapeutic supports, you know, counselors, all that kind of thing. Generally speaking, they've all come from that place where they've experienced it themselves and they're bringing that to help others. Obviously, some people have studied psychology and psychiatry at a university, but for the most part, I think people in the therapeutic services are coming with some personal experience of these things.

Sophie Shaw 24:48 

Yeah, and thank goodness for that as well because I work with a lot of women who are mothers of neurodiverse children and I have my own neurodiverse child, and until you've experienced that, you don't really get it. And I would hate to consult with somebody about anxiety if they had no idea what anxiety feels like because it's so unique, it's not easy to describe, it has to be at least experienced a little to be understood, I think.

David 25:22 

Yeah. I think that that's one of the things that put people off seeking help from their GP or anyone else, because the first thing a GP is gonna ask, is "how are you feeling?" "What are the symptoms?" And, and then you think, well, how am I going to describe this? so I think it's good that there are people out there, like yourself and others who have experienced it, and can speak the language of it, I think it's easier for people who have experienced it to kind of understand and pass on practices that worked them, from personal experience. 

Sophie Shaw 26:04 

absolutely.

David 26:05 

Everyone, everyone sort of deals with things differently. And everyone will respond to different types of therapies, I suppose.

Sophie Shaw 26:11 

Yeah, there's no one size fits all. And it's very hard. I know the medical world does use a checklist to measure depression, And I understand the need for kind of formalizing a diagnosis, but it is far more subtle than that.

David 26:35 

Another reason that stops people from seeking help is an inability to recognize the symptoms. How can we recognize that we might be starting to get anxiety? that we may be starting to go down that path? What are the signs and symptoms?

Sophie Shaw 27:10 

It does vary from person to person. And I tend to see a slightly different manifestation of anxiety and stress in men and in women, and not to get into gender stereotypes. But generally speaking, with men it tends to be expressed as irritability or even anger. And actually, it's not that different for women, either. Women do also experience irritability and anger, although they may express it slightly differently, they may internalize it and have a go at themselves. I often see people will have a rise in physical symptoms that can be explained away by other things. So they might have digestive issues, constipation is quite a common side effect of anxiety because you're just holding on, you know, or even a feeling of nausea or sickness, a sort of pit of dread in the stomach, you may find that if you have something to do like attend a meeting, or an interview, or a social gathering, and you really don't want to do it, you will find magically that you get a cold or a migraine or some other physical issue that prevents you from doing that. Insomnia, that's a really common one, or struggling to sleep and snapping at people when you are usually fairly even-tempered. And it's usually accompanied by a sense of hopelessness, feeling like there's nothing I can do, or I just don't feel myself, or I don't want to go out. Feeling completely overwhelmed. Those are the signs and it often happens to women because they are trying to do too many things. And they have all of this "should" belief, in other words, thinking that other people have it more difficult than me, I should be coping. I've got a house and I have money in the bank. I should be feeling okay. And I have a husband therefore I should be alright. You know, this self-judgment as I said. Women do tend to internalize it, this self-judgment, thinking I don't understand why I'm not coping, and I judge myself for not being able to cope. And the shame of that is going to stop me from getting help. That was quite a long list! 

David 30:16 

And it's not an exhaustive list either. You know, it was interesting when you mentioned suddenly becoming ill or getting a tummy upset, if you have a meeting that you don't want to go to. I've been speaking to clinical psychologist Colin Howard, and he was talking to us about how the mind works and how the body works, you know, concerning that. And it's incredible when you realize just how much the brain tries to protect you, the mind tries to protect us, you know, is so clever, the things that it does. And it's not always helpful, of course, but it tries the best way it knows how, to protect us

Sophie Shaw 31:07 

As a hypnotherapist. That's how I work. I speak to the subconscious mind. And it's kind of comforting to know that it's one single job is to keep us happy and safe and protected. And sometimes it learns really inconvenient ways of doing that. "So you don't want to go to the meeting? Great. Okay. Well, I'll break your ankle, and then you don't have to go. Yeah"

David 31:43 

And so what does it do if left untreated? Ultimately, what can happen? What does anxiety do to us in the short and long term?

Sophie Shaw 32:03 

Yeah, short term anxiety is a superpower. It's a fantastic thing being in fight, flight or freeze, the entire biological purpose of that is so that we can run fast, we can fight, we're stronger, we're fitter, we're absolutely present, we're in the moment, it's kind of exciting. Anxiety and excitement are really closely related. The trouble is in our modern world, when we're not facing an immediate predator, we don't have to fight a tiger or something, then it's just this extended stress and anxiety. And that's where it becomes an issue. Because you mentioned adrenaline and cortisol, this is the stress hormone that is fantastic for making us strong and fit and fast. But cortisol is only meant to be used in short bursts, and over a long period of time, they can cause all sorts of problems, such as digestive issues, because what the body does in those fight flight or freeze moments, is it ditches everything that is not essential. So it's not essential for us in those moments to quietly and slowly digest our food. So you may even eject it immediately, you know, or you just hold on to it and you don't digest it at all. It's also not essential for us to take on new information, so memory is something that gets really badly affected by stress and anxiety. It's not essential for us to do anything other than fight. So over a long period of time, you get digestive issues, then the digestive issues don't help with skin issues like eczema or asthma, or stomach problems. Obviously sleep is disrupted, because it is the last thing that is needed when you're in fight, flight or freeze mode. And the extended use of those chemicals in the body can be very damaging. It can cause all sorts of inflammatory issues. 

David 34:21 

When I was speaking to Colin Howard, the clinical psychologist about trauma and the effects of trauma, he mentioned another thing that can put people off seeking help, is that they think that the trauma is not significant enough. You know, they compare themselves to others, especially in this world of social media nowadays. We constantly compare our lives with other people and very often we think, "why should I be going to my GP and taking up their time". Colin described wha he calls "Big T" and "Little T, or "big trauma" and "little trauma". And so we spoke about how, a soldier for instance, who experiences trauma during war, may develop PTSD, because they have experienced an incident of extreme horror, a single incident of Big Trauma which has had a profound effect on their mental health. But equally you could have a person who's been involved in a car crash or something like that, a victim of a crime, whereby it's a single incident that has caused us trauma. But quite often, we think of that kind of trauma, as "real trauma", and that low level trauma that happens gradually, but consistently over a period of time, is somehow not real trauma, however, we now know that the effects of a serious single incident of trauma are just the same on the body and the mind as the effects of a single major traumatic incident. 

Sophie Shaw 36:25 

I completely agree. And in fact, I find that when people have experienced little T, trauma, and I'm not even sure how helpful that is as a label, because little t tend to kind of minimize it. But what we might think of as smaller traumas or a series of traumas extended over many years such as childhood bullying, and exclusion, a domineering parent, or even divorce are often more complex to unravel. In fact, a single great big trauma like a car accident, or something like that is is almost easier to unpeel and to unpack, than persistent daily trauma which happens over a long period of time.

David 37:22 

I can absolutely see that, you know, it's easier for us to have something that you can hang your hat on. I can understand it. And understanding what's going on and why we are thinking and feeling a particular way, is a huge step on the way to recovery. If there's a single incident of trauma that we've experienced, we know where it comes from, we know what's happened to us, and so it can sometimes be a slightly more straightforward process to try and deal with that or to try and reconcile our mind with that. 

Sophie Shaw 38:23 

And, you know, it tends not to be isolated, as well. So it does tend to be an accumulation of lots of different stressful, traumatic experiences. And we are still in this culture, where we tend to dismiss anybody who has supposedly had it easy. We tend to demonize celebrities, for example, for talking about their mental health issues, because we say, "well, you're rich, what right have you got to feel anxious or depressed". And that's why this kind of show, this kind of conversation is so important. Anxiety has absolutely no correlation with your standing in life. It doesn't discriminate if you're wealthy or poor, it makes no distinction.

David 39:32 

Yeah, whether you're a human with a million pounds in the bank or you're a human with nothing in the bank, you're still human, and it affects every one of us just the same. I had this conversation recently with someone who had made a comment to me about seeing a Hollywood movie star on YouTube, broadcasting from home and talking about Coronavirus and social isolation, and they said "it's really strange to think that, Ryan Reynolds would be struggling with social isolation" why not? Coronavirus is not gonna differentiate between Ryan Reynolds or any one of us. 

Sophie Shaw 40:31 

I think it's that we have this idea of who is entitled to feel sad. Yeah. And, and anyone is, anyone who is a human is entitled to feel sad. 

David 40:40 

Yeah, and we must recognize that as well. Because, I mean, you look at Robin Williams who committed suicide, and others like him, who are famous individuals who have obviously suffered pain.

Sophie Shaw 40:55 

Yes. People with extraordinary talent, people who are revered and admired, people who've achieved something that looks like enormous success can feel so bad that they feel that life for everybody else would be so much better without them around. The mind can be a beast unless we work out how to how to soothe it.

David 41:27 

So can I ask Sophie, what has worked for you in the past, I mean, I know that you said that you have been drawn to Reiki, but what is your go-to technique, whenever you're feeling anxious?

Sophie Shaw 41:51 

There's a number of go-to techniques, the best thing that I have found is to get control of the breath, and that's not easy to do. So sometimes you have to work up to it. The first thing is to acknowledge that in those moments of anxiety, without realizing it, you're probably holding the breath. That's what most of us do. So if you feel that anxiety is rising in moments of real stress, and panic, then something that you can think about doing is blowing. You can imagine that you have a feather on your hand, and you're just blowing that away. Or you could imagine that there are five birthday candles lined up in front of you, and you can just blow them out. And the purpose of that is to make sure that the breath is flowing. Or you can imagine that you're blowing up a balloon, I find that really helpful. In times of great panic, it's very difficult to do those long, slow breaths. So if you imagine you're blowing up a balloon, it's quite nice to imagine that you're blowing all of your anxiety and stress into the balloon. Once the breathing becomes a little easier, then you can start to regulate it even more. And a very calming breath is to breathe in for three, and out for five. That uneven count is particularly useful for lengthening the out-breath. But also, it's unusual enough that it means you give it your full attention. Because if you don't, you go into unconscious breathing, which is uneven and ragged. What you want is conscious breath. So you're counting in for three, and then breathing out for five. I think the breath is one of the most useful things for soothing and calming. One of the things that goes first in a panic attack is the breath. That's what causes you to hyperventilate because you need to get that oxygen in but you don't know how to get control of the breath. That's the first thing. Then grounding I think is particularly useful. So put two feet flat on the floor, wherever you are. feel that connection with the floor, feel that connection with the earth. try and do those breathing exercises. And as you breathe out, once you get to a slower breath, just imagine sending your energy down into your feet, down into the earth, all the way down into the center of the earth. That's very useful for helping people feel anchored, to feel rooted and grounded. When we're in anxiety, we're all up in the air, tension rises, the breath rises, we get into the higher part of the chest, and everything goes tense, and we're all up in our head, the thoughts are spinning. So sending the breath down, sending the energy down. That's very useful for just bringing all of that heightened emotion down, into the body.

David 45:49 

You know regardless of who you speak to, whether it's a medical doctor or a counselor, everyone says the breath is everything when it comes to relaxation, and bringing you back. When I'm speaking to clients on the phone, who are coming with various traumas, they also have practical problems which need to be addressed in their lives. And that's what I'm really there to help them with as well. However in order to help them with that, very often what I have to do first of all, is bring them down, and kind of lower the temperature slightly, and just get them into that stage where they can even be receptive to what I'm saying to them. Because as you were saying, the anxiety is just up here, you know, the thoughts are everywhere. And sometimes you need to bring people back down to a point where they can actually hear what you are saying. 

Sophie Shaw 47:10 

I think that's where things like, mindful meditation, and hypnotherapy works so beautifully. Because just by gently talking to people, you are able to bring them back into their bodies back into the present moment. Anxiety takes us off into the future, or into the past thinking about things that have already happened or what might happen. But focusing on the breath, which we don't have to put too much effort into doing, brings us right back into the present moment. 

David 48:04 

I was joking with one of my other guests on the show about this term "tree huggers" We still laugh about it but actually, the reality is that that's exactly what we're talking about now, you know, it's a form of grounding, and being rooted. Trees have texture, and to be with them and to touch the bark and feel that solid, immovable ancient structure, is something quite comforting. I think

Sophie Shaw 48:44 

I often use the image of a tree, not only in my personal meditations, but also with clients for that very reason. Because it is so solid, and it's a very benign presence as well. It feels calm and wise, and unflappable. It's been here for hundreds of years. It's seen all of the nonsense that we can possibly throw at it, come and go. And that's the nature of life as well, you know, that everything that we're experiencing right now is just what's happening right now. And we won't be experiencing this in five or 10 years time. 

David 49:32 

Absolutely. I find that quite comforting. During one of my anxiety attacks years ago. I felt this uncontrollable need to get out of the house, in my bare feet. I took off my shoes and went outside. I was searching for the most solid surface that I could find, and something with a bit of texture on it as well. And so I ended up coming out into the back garden, with my bare feet on the slabs, and my hands pressed against the brick walls of my house. And that was an enormous comfort. I didn't have to do it for long. It's very powerful.

Sophie Shaw 50:41 

You're talking about sensory awareness. Another useful technique, when you're feeling anxious is to look around and name five things that you can see, four things that you can hear, three things that you can touch, something you can taste, and this brings us back into what is happening in this present moment. And also, you know, the fact that you were connecting with your house, which like a tree, is going to stand for many years, probably. It's almost a way of tangibly connecting with some kind of higher power. You know, in the 12 step program, they talk about connecting to a higher power and people who don't believe in God, which is their right, struggle with that concept. But your chair can be your higher power, because it has the ability to hold you up all day, you don't have the ability to hold it up all day. So therefore at this moment, it's a higher power. So there is something very soothing for us about connecting with something that feels more solid, more powerful, something greater than we are. 

David 52:09 

For me, I can kind of pin that down to the feeling of being out of control of myself. And I think an important thing for me at that time, was to attach myself to something immovable, and solid, because at least the wall wasn't moving, you know. And it stopped me from moving as well. Because until I did that I was pacing back and forwards. And so actually stopping and putting hands on something and just kind of taking that time, grounded me physically. It made me feel less out of control.

Sophie Shaw 52:57 

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely control is a big one. and that's why it's so difficult during lockdown is because you know, the inability to control our environment to control what happens to us, is something that produces an enormous amount of anxiety. 

David 53:16 

What we're getting to here, s mindfulness, which is something I wanted to speak to you about anyway, Sophie. Mindfulness is one of these things that probably most people have heard of but fewer people probably know what mindfulness actually is, and why it's important for us. Can you sort of tell us a wee bit about what mindfulness is and what the benefits are?

Sophie Shaw 53:49 

mindfulness is a kind of meditation and the practice of mindfulness is about noticing, without judgment, observing without judgment, what's happening in the present moment. As I mentioned, with anxiety, we're never in the present moment, with anxiety, we're projecting our thoughts forward catastrophizing about what could happen in the future if, or we're obsessing about something that's happened in the past, difficult experiences, or conversations, or arguments that we couldn't win. So mindfulness teaches us to simply be in the present moment. And I personally find that guided mindful meditation is the most effective way of practicing mindfulness to begin with. Because most people think that you're supposed to kind of sit there and stop thinking, which is impossible. We need to think, but with mindfulness, what you can start to do, over time, is to turn the volume down on the thoughts. You find that when you sit and you're still, the thoughts are going to go racing around really noisily, there's nothing else to distract you from them, which is one of the things that stops people from doing mindfulness, because they don't want to be overwhelmed with their thoughts. But what happens over a period of time is that you find your thoughts sort of run out of steam. You allow them to say what they need to say, and then they just sort of run out of steam. They've said what they need to say, nothing has changed. And so they eventually just kind of slow down and quiet. And then we just notice what's happening right now. What's my breath doing? What does my body feel like? Where am I holding tension? And particularly doing that without judgment? Just observing. And I think that to begin with, it's very, very good to have that guided observation. Just be quietly observing what's happening in the body. And the benefit of that is a very profound sense of peace. The mental chatter, eventually, not immediately, but eventually it will just die down. And it leaves you with this quiet stillness, a quiet mind, a quiet peacefulness, and that the benefit of that, is that it tends to last well beyond the mindful meditation itself. And it is a practice, it's not an overnight thing it does take a little bit of discipline. But over time, you find that you become less reactive, that you become less anxious, less depressed, you develop a connection with your true inner self, and that quiet still place within yourself. That is hard to hear in amongst all the other noise and chatter of the modern world and in our minds.

David 57:46 

So yeah, and the more we practice it, the better we get at it. And the more we know, the easier it becomes to sort of visualize these things, and to focus on these things. And what I've found as well, is that the mindfulness practice is not only useful in terms of helping us to remain calm, and helping us to deal with anxieties, but actually, it can help us in day to day situations with the decisions that we make, and the interactions that we have with other people. You know, there may be examples at work, when someone has said something offensive to you which could potentially cause an argument. But that ability to ask yourself "what's going on inside me?" Why is this making me feel this way?

before you open your mouth, and before you make that situation, more inflamed is something I think we could all benefit from. It really helps us make more informed and better decisions, because arguments, conflicts, and hostility isn't going to serve anyone's purpose. it makes us feel bad. 

Sophie Shaw 58:20

Yeah, it makes us feel bad as well as the other person, and some of the most advanced workplaces in the world recognize the benefit of mindfulness and schedule in mindful practices for their employees to increase peace in the workplace, and increase productivity. 

Because, you know, it's quite obvious that when we're overburdened and overstressed, we get less done.

David 59:43 

Absolutely. And that's interesting that employers are doing that, it's a great start, I think. Because one of the things that people ask me about, is, "how do we find the time For mindfulness?", is it something we should we be doing all the time? And if so, how do we fit it into our busy lives?

Sophie Shaw 1:00:14 

I think a daily practice seems like a huge challenge. I know that time is short for everybody. But we do somehow find the time to sit and watch, a film, or more than one film, or to binge-watch a series. And I'm just as guilty of this as the next person, I'm an absolute Netflix addict. But to begin with, really all you need is sort of 10 to 15 minutes a day, and that's easy to carve out, there is a moment in your day, when you're doing something that you could replace with sitting and being still, you just set your alarm 15 minutes earlier. Or, you know, make sure that you build in 15 minutes of extra going to bed time. Taking 15 minutes out of your lunch break. I think if you fit it into an existing part of your daily routine, then it becomes much easier to stick to, you could start by saying I'm going to do mindful tooth brushing. So just for two minutes, as you brush your teeth, taking it a little bit slower, and really noticing how you're holding your brush. Where the bristles are going in your mouth. Where is the brush? How does it feel? What does the toothpaste taste like? All of those sorts of things, just mindfully observing an otherwise unconscious process. Start little, I think is the main thing, and start today. Do something achievable. Set yourself a goal of doing five minutes. And then when you've comfortably bedded that in, increase it to six, and so on and so on.

David 1:02:13 

Yeah, that's a great piece of advice. Sophie, do the little things, it's these little moments like brushing your teeth which can be really good for mindfulness. I think most people probably wouldn't consider that but anything can be a mindful practice

Sophie Shaw 1:02:33 

yeah, you can have a mindful dinner.

David 1:02:35 

Yeah. mindful eating, mindful cooking.

Sophie Shaw 1:02:38 

It's so good for health, you know, whatever you cook, regardless of its health benefits, taking the time to slowly taste and savor all of it, you will almost certainly find that you eat less.

David 1:03:00 

I remember having a breakdown with work-related stress. And every morning, when I used to go in the shower, negative thoughts would come into my head and the anxieties would start to rise. I remember speaking to a counselor at the time, who had suggested I had developed PTSD. He said that my brain had recognized that every time I was in the shower, I was preparing to go to work, and so my brain would recognise this, and begin sending me unhelpful thoughts and anxieties. However if was able to just focus on the warm water and the process of washing myself, then very quickly the negative thoughts would disappear. It would be ideal if we could do everything mindfully. 

Sophie Shaw 1:04:27 

Yeah, it would be amazing. But the reason I say start small is because we have to be realistic and we live in a very complex and noisy world and we can only control our responses. And I can brush my teeth mindfully for all I'm worth, but if I get out on the street and some stranger comes and punches me in the face, then my response is not likely to be mindful. 

Maybe not the best example. But yeah, I mean, we have to be realistic and compassionate about what we can achieve, and also about what other people are dealing with.

David 1:05:13 

Can you signpost, people to any links, sites, books, or any further reading that would help people along the mindful path?

Sophie Shaw 1:05:34 

When you're in an anxiety state, I wouldn't necessarily encourage reading too much. The tendency to Google and find out a lot of information that you don't really want to see is only going to fuel your anxiety, so rather than going to research, I would personally be looking at tuning into calming meditations. There are tons of them on YouTube, I have my own YouTube channel with all those mindful Monday meditations on them. Also thinking about getting some help to talk with somebody would actually be more beneficial. So that could be a hypnotherapist. It could be a Reiki teacher, it could be a counselor, or psychotherapist or any sort of therapy that appeals to you. Those would be the things I would think of doing. There are some fantastic apps as well. So the Headspace app is very good. People tell me that the Calm app is very useful. 

David 1:06:53 

I use the Headspace app myself, it's great. 

Sophie Shaw 1:06:55 

I used to. I also have an app called relax melodies. That's on Android, I don't think it's on Apple. But that has all sorts of relaxing sounds that you can mix together, has meditations and bedtime stories. So I use it with my son as well. And those are quite useful. It's got things like rain and calming noises. So those I think, would be the things that I would steer people towards rather than reading more about anxiety and reinforcing anxious feelings. 

David 1:07:40 

Dr. Google is not always the best resource when it comes to things like anxiety. However, one form of reading that is very beneficial. Is your book! How did you like that for a segue? Have you launched your new book? 

Sophie Shaw 1:08:11 

I'm in pre-launch it at the moment, it's being held up by Amazon. And yeah, it's ready. It's available, they need to sort out the tech and i think during Coronavirus, they're short-staffed so it just takes longer. Everything takes too long. But it's almost there. Yes.

David 1:08:33 

So tell us a bit about the book then, it's called The Hare and The Moon?

Sophie Shaw 1:08:42 

Yes It's called The Hare and The Moon, a calming fable for anxious children. And the premise behind the book is I wanted to write something that was going to help children who have anxiety to develop a coping strategy of their own, to teach them very basic, gentle, mindful meditation techniques, almost without them realizing that's what they're being shown and demonstrated. So essentially, it's just a lovely calming story about what happens after the tortoise beats the hare in a race. So it takes place after Aesop's fable,. The hare is teased by his friends and he's laughed at and slightly bullied, and he feels incredibly anxious and embarrassed. Running is his whole thing. And he starts to question himself. What does it mean? I'm a terrible runner, what does that mean about me? and nobody likes me and everybody's laughing at me. And there's a fox who's really nasty and teases him and he starts to wind himself up and get more and more anxious, and his mother tells him the history of their kind, which is that they are moon gazing hares. And she asks him to go and meet the moon. And the moon is a very calming, benign presence, who is always they're day or night, whether or not hare can see her. And they formed this beautiful relationship where hare just simply looks at the moon. And as he looks at her and does nothing else but look at her, he finds that his heart beat slows down, and he to settle down. And he just feels calmer, more peaceful and easy and is able to fall asleep. And the journey of the book is him learning that when he feels those anxious feelings, that he can just think about the moon, and it has the same calming effect.

So that's the idea behind the story.

David 1:11:21 

It's such a lovely book. I read it before bed last night, and it's such a gently worded book, you know, you can just imagine reading that to your kids at bedtime, and the central message of the book, this mindfulness, is really useful to adults as well. But the book is so so gentle and warm, and the way that it kind of expresses that for kids. It's just such wonderful thing. Is there an audiobook version available? 

Sophie Shaw 1:12:20 

It is available. I haven't officially launched it yet. But yes, I made the audiobook myself as well. I knew that as a former actor, and as a hypnotherapist. I had to be the one to tell my story. So yes, that is available though not officially launched.

David 1:12:35 

I fortunately have the benefit of having known you for a number of years Sophie and so when I was reading it last night, I could just hear your voice narrating the book. I tend to do that with books anyway if I know the author, so for me, it was as good as an audiobook anyway. I could imagine you telling this story to your son, and leading him through the journey of Hare. In fact, I kind of saw you as the character of Mother Hare in the book. 

Sophie Shaw 1:13:10 

Mother Hare in the book, is far more patient than I am, she's who I would like to be. 

David 1:13:20 

Another thing I liked about the book was the descriptions of the landscape. There was a real sort of sensory immersion, where you've described the leaves underfoot, and the cool grass, and the warmth of the sunlight, and so again, these are all tapping into this kind of sensory awareness which just reinforces mindfulness. 

Sophie Shaw 1:13:58 

Yeah. And I'm a strong believer in the healing power of the natural world anyway, I mean, I live in the countryside, I'm surrounded by green trees and grass. And for me personally, that's really, really healing and even when I was living in the city, I had plants in my house and I had pot plants outside my windows and I spent time just looking out of the windows at other people's trees and finding that was very calming for me.

David 1:14:30 

It really is wonderful stuff Sophie. And I thoroughly recommend folks get themselves a copy of either the book or the audiobook version once it's available. I will put links on in the description of this podcast for everything that was spoken about today, including the book and your own social media and so on. So anyone who's interested can go there and get hold of a copy of the book. I Thoroughly recommend it and I did sleep like a log last night.

Sophie Shaw 1:15:05 

That's awesome.

David 1:15:06 

Yeah there were no monsters under my bed last night. 

Sophie Shaw 1:15:11 

terrific.

David 1:15:12 

Sophie, thank you very, very much for coming on the podcast, it's been an absolute pleasure speaking to you. And I'm sure that you've added lots of value for anyone listening. People are reaching this podcast for the same reason they're going to you. And that is that they're suffering anxiety and they want strategies and answers, they want a way to kind of regain control, so thank you very much for your insight and advice. And I hope you'll join us again on another podcast.

Sophie Shaw 1:15:46 

I'd love to.

David 1:15:47

Good stuff. For everyone else. Please remember to subscribe to the podcast so that you get access to all the new episodes. And if you do want to drop me a line, please do so at: david@thequietmind.co.uk or, again, drop me a line through one of our social media platforms, Facebook or Instagram. Let me know what you think of the podcast. Let me know if there's anything you want us to discuss in future podcasts. Tell us about some of your experiences of anxiety, and what has worked for you. That would be interesting to know. It may be worth sharing that information with some of our listeners on future podcasts as well. So please sign up and we'll see you next week on the quiet mind.